Are Good Musicians Hard to Find?
I want to take this opportunity to talk about musicians in the church or should I say the lack there of. I've heard and witnessed churches soliciting musicians because either their musician left or they've never had a consistent musician. Many of them say that good musicians are hard to find. Is that really the case or is it that the good musicians are being pulled in another direction? There is a long standing debate over whether musicians in church should be getting paid. There are many supporters on both sides of the camp, but the one thing that I have noticed is that the ones that oppose musicians getting paid as well as those that don't have a sizeable budget are the ones suffering this issue the most - (Simply Observations). Musical standards have grown over the years where musicians are expected to "perform" or operate at a certain level. With this increased skillset comes an increased worth and many musicians have figured this out. We live in what I call the Multi-Media Praise Age where we have lights, cameras, big screens, dvds, cds, and great music. Most very successful ministries have most if not all of these. These items attract a larger congregation which allows the budget to be increased for things like music and musicians. Musicians today (especially younger musicians) are being drawn to better paying opportunities. Many times the opportunities are not in the church. What is the answer to keep our musicians in the church and allow them to be fulfilled? Any Ideas?
Letron Brantley (Sax / Flute / Piano)
CEO & Founder
GospelSkillz.com
In the area where I'm playing, salaries are more geared toward pastors rather than musicians. I'm a firm believer that you give credit where it is due, but i think musicians are really not treated fairly whwn it comes to compensation. I'm not saying musicians should go after the secular contracts and worldly pleasures, but hey come now-the bible says also "to not muzzle the Ox that shreads the corn..." This is a very major subject that need to be address in a lot of Churches. People need to change thier attitude toward musicians that are trying to remain faithful to the call...
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Pastors and musicians are both Levites. They are both required to serve 24/7 and they are both dedcated to a lifetime of study. They are both responsible for getting the message to the hearts of the congregation - one through song, and one through the preached Word. The Old Testament church understood this. Levites didn't work outside of the temple. Do you want to be able to reach your Pastor during the day, or do you want him to be doing a shift at Starbucks? What about musicless funerals because your organist can't get time off from the job?
If music wasn't that important, we wouldn't be all uptight when it's not there.
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Your quick article on church musicians being paid is probably a very touchy subject for a few! I am a musician that God has given the talent to play the piano without taking a lesson. I would love to share that story with you some time. My love and heart for playing anointed gospel music in the church is more than I can put into words. Music, I feel, ushers in alot of times the move of the Holy Spirit when musicians allow the Lord to use them in the service. It is something that should not be taken lightly. It is not about the musician, but your attitude in worshiping God with your talent.
I don't think alot of church going individuals (christians) see the music ministry as an important part of the church service and I feel most see it as some type of entertainment. HOW SAD!!! Most people don't feel they need to support the church in this way and think this should all be free! On the other hand they have no problem in attending a worldly concert paying $25 and up and thinking nothing about it and than bragging about it. Why don't we just slap God in the face? These same people will sit and wonder whats wrong with the church.
I truly feel that the worker is worthy of his hire. I understand that alot of churches can't afford to pay big fees to these musicians, but some can! Really if it is only $5 most spirit playing church musicians would and do it for free because of the call on their life to play. It would just be a show of your importance to us. God will bless them for what they do, but the church is the loser when they lose someone with this call on their life to the world. Sadly enough eventually that musician starts losing his walk with God. Who is to blame at this point??
October was designated as pastor appreciation month which is good. When is the last time you have heard of musician appriecation at a church? How can the eye look at the finger and say "Your not important and I have no need of you!" Everyone is so important!
Final word is any church musician that takes his/her call seriously should be compansated in some form. If nothing else to show how much they are appriecated. Dose God expected anything less???
Yours in the Lord,
Carl
Newark, OH
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Are we now hiring musicians or are they members of the church? If a church can afford to hire a musician they run into the same problem that we see running rampant in sports and even in business. We have heard and seen all too many times the sports figures say they are happy where they are and when someone offers a bigger paycheck they move on and forget that they said they were loyal to the team they just left. I've observed that the only thing people are loyal to is the number of dollars they can stuff in their pockets. There is no loyalty to Christ and the Church.
I had 2 musicians in my church that at the beginning said that they just wanted to play and that money wasn't an issue. That was in October. Knowing that we could not pay them we had scheduled an appreciation service for them the following June with all monies collected would go to them. In May they left to go to a church that said they would pay them to come and play. I also heard from a pastor about how a musician held the church hostage every time the church was scheduled to go to another church. The Musician would only go if the musician was going to be compensated. And if he wasn't then the church would not take the date. Only when the church decided that they were no longer going to allow this practice to happen and told the musician they were going with or without him that the musician came on board and went with the church.
I also know of a lady that has called me several times to ask if I knew of any church that was looking for a musician to hire. She has repeatedly turned down my offer to come out and be a part of our service all because we were not able to pay her. SHe has been to 3 churches that i know about and has not been faithful to anyone of them. I'm not saying that the musician is not important but I feel the ministry of the church of bringing souls to Christ is more important and should be first and foremost. If the musician is not concerned with souls being saved, and that means their own as well, then they need to stay at home or where ever else they can play and stop trying to take from the church that is trying to make it month to month.
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I have one question for everybody:
Why is it that when Pastors go from one church to another, they are "led by the Lord," but when a musician changes churches, he has ABANDONED GOD?!?!?!?!?
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I'm cool with paid salary and all...but I feel musicians lack the sincerity nowadays...playing in their home church because it's our reasonable service...and because we love the lord...that's fine...there are always that humble few
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I feel that the average church person don't realize how much work a church musician does. Members of my family, and friends have grown into an appreciation of the church musician. They now realize how much you have to practice personally, and rehearse the choir, study the music, plan for rehearsals, go to all those choir rehearsal throughout the week, minister at the worship service(s), play at all the church programs, travel with the pastor, plan a calendar, prepare for concerts, and all the media stuff if you have to deal with it. Then, if you have a family...that's a lot of time away. Not to mention a full time job. Other than the pastor, the church musician is probably one of the hardest jobs of the church.
I have a lot of friends who were excellent ministers of music, but got burned out with all the drama, politics, and work load of the church. They found out that they could make a good living from playing and working without the headaches of church work. That's where we loose a lot of our great talent out the church.
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I am a 26 year old Associate Pastor and Worship & Arts Director at my church. But more importantly, my Pastor is my Spiritual Father. Somewhere, the church has come to believe that musicians don't need to be spiritually led and fed by the one who has enlisted their talents to be utilized.
God has given ALL OF US Pastors according to His heart (Jer 3:15). This means that the musician, just as the usher, must submit himself to the vision, leadership, and authority of the set man and/or woman of the house. I used to be paid for my assignment at my church and that payment was later revoked (not for anything bad). My assignment as a Worship and Arts Director is Voluntary as is an Usher's assignment. What places one's responsibility worthy of being paid over the other? When I was no longer paid, I was actually relieved. I can now minister to those Pastors who are struggling with their musicians who ARE being paid because I'm not and I'm still faithful.
The problem is not whether musicians should be paid. The problem is that most musicians ARE NOT committed to their church nor have the heart of their leader. They're called hirelings.
Job 36:11 says that "IF I obey and serve, I'll spend my days in prosperity and my years in pleasure". This is true for the body of Christ. So I challenge all of those who will read this response. Set your hearts to obey and serve and prove God's word to be true for you so you can minister that same grace to another Pastor and/or musician.
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Brother Jeremy: I am in agreement with you. Now I will say, I am a Minister Of Music who happens to get paid, but I do have the heart to serve my Pastor. That part is the Most important to me because I am also a Ordained Minister of the Gospel. But it took me years to get to this point. But being properly taught as a child, and being continually taught by my Pastor is a big help, but also being sensitive to the Holy Spirit of what the Ministry needs is the key. if more Ministers of Music and Musicians were interested in being sensitive to The Holy Spirit, then and then only will some things change and then finacial doors will be opened for all involved. But, I want you to know, that I agree with you and your opinion. God Bless You.
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I agree to a certain degree with what you are saying. The problem lies with what we are calling ourselves. Musicians are of the world, we are minstrels and thus should carry ourselves as such. We "minister" the Gospel through music. That should be our #1 Priority along with serving our leadership. Let's go to the Bible...The Bible actually is what sets one's responsibility over another's. If you study the Levitical order and the Tribe of Levi you find out that the 10% tithe was taken out to not only take care of the Pastor but the entire Tribe of Levi.Why...? Because they were responsible for taking care of the Church and the matters of the church. There entire responsibility was to care for the church and the people of God. Thus they were paid and taken care of because this was not only something they loved to do but this was also their jobs. The "church" has become so afraid of skillset, when back in the Biblical days David sought after those that played skillfully. Just the mere fact that we just don't show up and usher someone to a seat should constitute a different reward. Minstrels put in countless hours to perfect the gift that God has given them, not to mention the time of prayer and preparation, choir rehearsal, travel with the Pastor, and all the services that us black folk like to have!!lol There should be NO QUESTION at all that Minstrels should be paid for there time and services. Especially when this becomes a career for them. For years I was a Minister of Music with a family and a Full-time job...technically that means I had 2 Full-Time Jobs. From planning conferences and making sure that the Music Program was relevant to every faucet of the congregation, all that plays a part of what a minstrel does.
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Latron: One reason we have a shortage of church musicians is that alot of the musicians are $ minded. Now I know money is important, but we also need to look at the ministry side of things, and then come to some sort of medium of how to work out the $ amount of what the musician is worth from a ministry aspect, not just a musical aspect. Now the church also has to know what is right as well concerning that musician. it will always be an ongoing battle. Just keep praying.
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We often leave logic at home when we talk "church" and that doesn't work anywhere in today's society church included. However, I think there are a lot of dynamics we must examine in order to actually tackle this topic. A meeting of minds must be in order.
One thing to account for is that anything that has a salary attached has standards that yield specific results that must be fulfilled. Once implemented an adequate salary is utilized. That is legitimate business. The church is God's house; however,it still operates as a business as well.We gotta pay utilities and etc.) Now, as it relates to musicians we have to realize the duties that musicians. At least 90% of a church service is music based or driven. We even rev up the B3 when the word is being declared so the need for musicians is dire to the success of modern churches. This cannot be neglected nor taken lightly. Yes, God has granted each of us a gift and it is up to us to use it wisely (less He takes it away), but just because it's a God-given gift does not mean we can not reap monetary compensation for it. The Bible states a pastor who labors in the gospel is worthy of DOUBLE honor (I Tim.5:17) because his lone job is in the gospel, not pastoring and laboring in another profession.
Secondly, being that 90% of a service is music based we have to respect that this is demanding: people & time management, preparation, organization, implementation and production. Those aren't something you can wake up on Sunday and throw together skillfully. Pastors have to realize that when you are dealing with a music ministry you delve into a realm where you have to assess the quality/demand they want from a music ministry. To want a Potter's House music ministry requires more than a telling a musician thank you after service on Sunday. IT REQUIRES RESOURCES.
Also we must acknowledge there are two types of musicians: 1) Hired Staff and 2) Hired-Voluneteers
Hired staff is equal to an employee rendering a service for compensation. They have obligations, reqs, goals, objectives in which they are responsible for meeting otherwise they are terminated. Hired Volunteers are those who lend hands where available with minimal expectations in service (not quality), agreeing/submitting to fulfill reqs as if they are paid staff. I think it is critical that pastors communicate because if they feel they have a volunteer vs a staff things can get ugly when a musician is looking for a check after service. We see the possibilities are limitless for musicians now, even inside the Christendom. Most musicians have music as their livelihood and that is to be expected and respected. We cannot be upset with the musician thats "hustlin" trying to put food on his table and goes to where he can have his cake and eat too. However, the musician & pastor cannot expect a 30 member church to cake over a salary that is unreasonable just to keep the musician "full" gotta work with what you got and allow for GROWTH & INCREASE.
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Hi bro,
Paid / not paid is quite a controversial topic. We could equally apply the passage from Judges where a priest was willing to move and serve another group for a few shekels of silver... when it is the priestly duty to do the work of God whether paid or not.
Anyway, regarding multimedia... if musicians are not careful, the congregation runs the risk of falling into the 'be entertained' mode and musicians could risk falling into the 'entertainer / performer' mode. But what happens when you REMOVE the videocam, amp, bass, fancy runs and licks... the congregation can't / dunno how to experience the presence of God? I come from a trad backgrd but have visited lots of churches, listen to a wide variety of praise n worship, gospel (Ron Kenoly, Alvin Slaughter, Joe Pace).
just a few random thoughts. God bless.
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Not all churches are multimedia. I can't speak for the rest of the country, but NYC has thousands of "storefront" churches. In my beloved bourough of Brooklyn it is not that uncommon to see five churches on the same block.
How does that relate to our discussion?
I'm glad you asked. My question is:
How can we get musicians for all of these churches?
In 1990 Eli Whitney warned us that the AIDS crisis was robbing us of musicians. "In the year 2000, if you need a musician for the Sunday service, it will cost you $500."
I didn't believe him then, but I think I owe him an apology.
So where are the musicians coming from? We can't rely on the Board of Education because they abandon the music program every time they run out of money.
The church needs to start training somebody, the way the Levites did in the Old Testament.
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My thoughts on this are twofold. First of all, God gives us gifts and talents for many reasons, including to give us a means of earning a living. So if a person's talent is music, if he or she can't earn a living with the music, what do we expect him or her to do?? So, yes, musicians ought to be paid, just as painters are paid, schoolteachers are paid, mechanics are paid, etc.
Secondly, however, there IS a difference between serving God with your talent and your "day job." Some people are able to combine the day, and I say God bless 'em. For those who can't, they should consider the concept of tithing. I was taught that tithing is not just about money, but about the "3 T's": time, talent, and treasure. As such, I always make sure that I am tithing all 3. What that means from a practical perspective, and related to this topic, is that if I am the church musician and they pay me each Sunday, I refuse payment 1 Sunday a month. That's an average of a 25% "tithe" of my musical talent, which I think is pleasing to God.
To sum up my opinion, I think that musicians should be paid, but they should not limit themselves to paying gigs. Sometimes God's work has to be done even when there is no funding for it.
God bless you all.
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I think the ULTIMATE reason why God gives us gifts/talents is so that He gets all the glory and honor out of us. We are just vessels that He decided to place gifts and talents in along with His annointing, to be used for HIM and HIM alone. If a person's musical talent is his or hers ONLY source of income and the church is paying them , Then paying tithes is great. (it's mandatory) However,if your the church musician and thats NOT your main source of income and your church is paying you, then maybe giving the offering back to God would be a better idea; Almost like a firstfruit offering.
If God said that He will open up the windows of heaven and pour out so many blessings for us;(Mal.3:10,11) Imagine what He would do if we gave back to Him all the money the church gave to us. I'm a gospel musician thats been playing for about 9 or 10 yrs.(Bless the Lord)However, this gift isn't my source of income.Out of all the gigs I've done some churches paid and some didn't but, I never asked for it. So I just sowed back into ministry, and by me doing that It taut me the principle of giving back to God. If the church decides to glorify or give $$$ to us musicians,then we ought to give it back to God.
We as ministers of music,pastors,worship leaders,whoever has a position need to remember that God didn't have to create us to get His glory in the first place because He is the King of Glory(Ps.24) And that He shares it with no man.
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Im a 15 year old musician. I've been playing keyboard and organ for about a year and a half.But ive been playing drums in church when i was a year old. I've been playing drums for a church for 4 years now. Without pay. I really don't care if i dont have no salary because I love playing in church, ministering through music makes me feel good. it keeps me out of trouble. but my drum skills didn't come overnight. I have to practice practice practice to get to my level of playing. I know how to read music well, im basically professionally at my instrument. but my church still doesnt think they should pay me, just because of my age. I never miss a choir rehearsal. never miss a service, dont get on the minister of musics nerves. I listen. I dont take my music lightly at ALL. i could use a lil money. but until i get it, i have to depend on gigs, but God has things in store me so im not worried
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Honestly i believe you don't mind not getting paid because the church never paid you before I strongly believe if you were getting paid you would have a different view. Im 19 years old my church got all these unstable musicians to play for there church and I was there we had three musicians in a matter of 2 years and thats bad but my church didn't have a problem paying them but when i became musician at my home hurch the pastor had a problem paying me the same as the other ones because i was to young my pastor never told me that the trustees told me i got got what the other musicians were paid but they want you here and there and get uptight when your not there. Many people switch up the word of God to the word of man and make you believe it's wrong to get paid you have to read the word on your own to figure out. The members of the church don't appreiciate the musicians period but are wondering where they are when they show up late. Us as MUSICIANS have a big responsibilites in church getting criticised for doing things wrong, when your playing good they think your showing off there is a lot of stress being a church musician that drive most of us away!
so why not get paid.
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god is truly going to bless you, keep up your good attitude and continue to keep playing for the lord and being faithful. It will pay off..when it does,you'll remember my comment. stay blessed...
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I'm a spirit filled musician that has been ministering in music for 11yrs. Receiving a salary for the last 5yrs. I understand both side as a ministry and a musician. I'm focusing on the question how musicians can be fulfilled in the church! 1. Communication equals relationship (naturally/spiritually)2. Most people don't have a problem serving or helping when ORDER or business matters are set in place. God doesn't dwell in confusion! Would you work a job with no guidelines or handbook? 3. They say that they don't have, but turnaround and hire a band or ask God for a full band. Must be Faithful over a few things then a ruler over many? 4. Most pastors state: We grow then you grow! What if you're not growing? 5. Keep business matters out of sermons. Do you want anyone to expose your concerns, faults, or short-comings that were told behind closed doors? 6. Let your YES be YES and NO be NO! If not please communicate.7. Writing HOT checks or holding a HOT check. How effective in ministering can you be when your lights are ready to be turned off or you tell your child we can't eat cause the church didn’t pay daddy, but you just got a prophetic word that same sun morning GOD knows what you need? 8. There is a time or a season for sowing! Everything isn’t FREE! 9. Stop using the word of God for selfish reasons when it comes to business mattes. The bible does states about being slow full in business in Corth.! 10. You have to get your assignment from God by knowing your calling before you enter the four walls (relationship with the father). Pastors and musicians are to serve and love one another! Everybody's calling or destiny is not to play every sun! There are more people outside than inside. 11. Rebuke and kill the spirit of oppression that some pastors don't want there musicians to grow for selfish reasons! The truth of the matter is that, there cutting off there full potential and blessings! Does a new born child stay at home forever? 12. Musicians have gotten burned on recordings either compensation or song(s). Please Copyright! 13. Times are even harder now! You can overcome as a team, Father/son or Mother/daughter, not because you have a TITLE or you’re always stating….be doers of the word!
14. A pastor gave me this example concerning money. Jobs give raises and bonuses for good hard work. When a child of God whether pastor or musician receives a raise or bonus it means good work right? This response is to refresh or energize your spirit so that you can continue to go forward and you feel appreciated! 15. Most pastors there were once a musician usually don’t have this problem? They understand the struggle!
16. Please understand, I’m not trying to bash pastors or the church but try to expose the enemy and open blinded eyes that church over looks and neglects. It’s important to pray for your leader that he/she receives the WISDOM of GOD. You can have knowledge and understanding without the wisdom of God to APPLY knowledge and understanding!
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Hey there! I just wanted to let you know that this is a much needed site
on the Web and that you seem to be doing a great job. I received your
small article on the church losing musicians to the entertainment industry
and I think more than anything musicians leave the Black Church out of a
lack of respect for their gift.
I am a a professional horn player (trombone) that is part of the paid
staff of a mega-church in the Atlanta area. Although, we aren't paid
Union scale, we are compensated very well. More than that, though, we are
respected by our Pastor and the Leadership Team as being just as
significant to the overall success of the ministry as they are. That type
of respect has been very hard to come by in African American church
circles.
Most Black churches treat their musicans almost like slaves--requiring
them to work long hours for rehearsals (rehearsals routinely go over the
standard 2 hrs for secular groups), minister during marathon worship
services with no break (a lot of our church services can last over 3 hrs
with multiple services in one day!), and extended travel for ministry
engagements, and are unwilling to respect musicians' time and efforts by
paying them. And oftentimes, these are churches with exceptional ministry
resources. I know of one church I played for that never really paid their
musicians and the church boasts over 5,000 members!
Time is out for musicians playing simply because they love music and they
love God! Christian music has evolved and gotten progressively more
complex musically over the past couple of decades. Due to God's unfolding
revelation in areas of theology, gospel musicians are no longer bound to
hymnals and memorized congregational songs. The musical technique and
musicianship now needed to properly execute contemporary songs of worship
and praise is extraordinary.
Pastor must be willing to recognize this and budget appropriately for
their music departments.
As an aside, it is interesting to note that depending on the church, the
ministry of music in a typical worship service now is more diverse
than--oftentimes--even the church membership! This accounts for study
growth of African American churches and their study evolution into
sancturaries that harbor an ever broadening, multicultural millieu.
Again, this is something Church leaders should consider when formulating
their budgets ad their opinions of church musicians.
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My name is Ola Hemphill. I'm a pianist and singer who grew up in the Baptist church. Today I'm very involved on the 'real jazz'scene. I currently sing (scat) and play jazz. I'm also working on my first gospel jazz & jazz CD. I wrote half the songs on the project and did the vocal and musical arrangements for all songs. Although I'm over 60 years old, I interact with musicians that include musicians who are much younger than I. I've subbed as a pianist or keyboard player for different churches. It works well for me because, although I can read and write music, I can also learn songs by listening to CD's. I can pick up the music from a track on a CD and continue playing the music after the track stops. My favorite church playing situation is a church that has a really good praise team with a band. I prefer playing with a rhythm section that hopefully includes a really good jazz horn player. I say all of the above to say that if you have worked hard to hone your skills to be a good musician with a wealth of experience, you have a right to approach a church or any other situation for that matter with what you've done, what you have to offer and, if hired, expect compensation that's comparable to getting paid for a good job you'd obtain in industry, etc. You simply must reach a point in your life where you know your worth and act accordingly. (It would also help to have another occupation so you don't have to rely totally on playing for churches.) I'm grateful for what I'm able to do a a musician and singer but I know my worth and have no problem staying at home until the right opportunity come along for me to play full time again. No good musician should have to justify his/her spirituality to get a job playing for a church. You're being hired to play and if you're a good human being and treat people right this, combined with your wealth of training and experience should be more than enough to secure a position as a church musician, etc. I know without a doubt some of the best church musicians are jazz musicians and many of them will not necesarily become members of churches. If churches want them to play, they have to pay. I'm also a retired math teacher who likes the phrase, 'It's a win-win situation for everyone.' Some churches need to do a reality check and buy into that phrase by giving good musicians their props. Therefore,let the financial blessings flow for good musicians whom I'm sure will be more than grateful to show their appreciation for being appreciated.
LET THE MUSIC PLAY!!
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It may be difficult to get musicians to work in the church for nothing. I accept that. But what about the attitude of the church body to only want the best when God may have sent less so less could develop into best over time. In other words, how many great musicians/needed musicians and.or directors have been overlooked because they did not meet "the people's" standard? They don't sing like Kurt, Byron, or Fred, right now, but they really want to help. My suggestion, if God places someone in your congregation with the heart to do, help them even if it means paying for classes. That person will work for free or almost for free because God sent him or her.
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We must never forget where the financial debate began. lucifer (satan) was fine with BEING praise and worship until he felt as those his assignment was under-appreciated. So what did he do? When lucifer wasn't compensated the way that he thought he should've been, he established his own way, fabricated a new set of ungodly instructions, and convinced 33% of heaven's angels to do the same. satan and his crew are tearing up the church and we're not doing anything about it. Praise and Worship was his assignment. Do you think that he's not jealous of the opportunity that we have every time our fingers strike the keys? We took his job and he can't handle it. he's jealous. We wouldn't have to be saved from a hell that never existed. Hell is the result of thinking that we're bigger than our assignment. How is this scenario relevant????
This discussion is so focused on money that we've robbed God of the opportunity to tell us what church/ministry he desires us to be a part of. After all, it IS HIS Church isn't it?
Do you really think that God is ok with a lost soul that's seeking rest being denied salvation because a church can't satisfy a musicians' financial criteria? Worship in the church is WARFARE, not WELFARE. God doesn't owe us ANYTHING. WE OWE HIM. How can we talk about waiting for the right financial opportunity? What about God's opportunity? Guess what? You can choose the best picture financially and still have no peace, no joy, no fulfillment, and still experience hell all because you let a check drive you and not a check in your spirit.
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The bible states natural first then spiritual. What if i had a degree in music and i had two choices to teach at a school (secular) with a salary or a church (God's temple) with a salary. I worked hard and studied my craft and i'm a spirit filled believer. I know i have financial responsibilites. So what makes one higher than the other of what my profression is? Remember both postions or jobs i'm givingmy best unto GOD! Am i not worthy of my hire? What if i was married and have kids? Is it fair for me to struggle or take a low paying position if this is the WILL of God? The problem is you're trying to use spiritual analysis over business principles. If you don't work then you don't eat! So, what is the difference of a pastor that states God called them off there job to do full-time ministry but they only have 5 memembers? They expect a full-time salary! So, that makes you a "hireling" right? If God says it then he will make provsion right? In return you put oppression on the flock for a "demand of a salary". What is the difference of a pastor or musician that labors before the lord. They are both worthy of double honor. If you're going try to make an example out of musicians then you need to start with the head first. God is a God of order not confusion! This is for those who are too spiritual but are struggling financially. He that has and ear, let them hear right? Be doers of the word! God giveth you the power to recieve wealth!
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Let me be absolutely clear. I have NOOOOOO CHALLENGES with musicians being paid. However, we must answer this question honestly: "Are we playing at churches that makes us financially comfortable, or are we playing where God told us to?" You specifically said that YOU had a choice to either teach secularly or within the church. What SPECIFICALLY makes a musician worthy of paid staff, but an usher, greeter or deacon voluntary and unequal (Biblically)?
Secondly, the Pastor is part of the five-fold ministry gift: not the musician. the PASTOR has to give an account unto God concerning the care of his flock: not the musician. You're stepping into dangerous territory when you compare yourself to the Pastor. I'm not speaking of specific PEOPLE who are Pastors, but the calling and ordinance of Pastor. Pastor is an assignment, not a name given to a person. Until we honor the ASSIGNMENT of the Pastor (whoever they may be) we'll dishonor GOD by our comparison to them.
I know I can sound edgey, but nothing I've written can be disproved by the word of God. You're right! GOD IS NOT the author of confusion. That's why he's given us Pastors according to His heart (Jer 3:15). If we honor and respect those that GOD HIMSELF put in place, money will never tear up the church the way that it has.
Money will always take on the character of the individual whose hands it passes through. Money isn't the root of all evil! THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL (IN THE WORLD AND IN THE CHURCH)!
So I ask again: IS THE PAYCHECK'S VOICE SPEAKING LOUDER THAN GOD'S VOICE CONCERNING WHERE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE?
In Love,
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PLease forgive me for double posting, but I feel compelled to answer your opening question.
Pastors and musicians are both required to spend a great deal of time preparing for every service. Neither one can ever stop studying if they want to know what they are doing. This is why the Old Testament church took care of the Levites.
I rely heavily on the ushers for assistance during the service, as I am sure most musicians do. I am also relying on all of you to respond in love when I talk about deacons and usehrs, because this is clearly not my field of expertise. I will never fully appreciate the deacon board or the usehr board until I have been in their position. This is why the membership can never fully appreciate the Pastor or musician.
Should Deacons be paid? Yes. I'll explain why, but remember, I'm not a deacon.
The old testament talks about musicians, but the New Testament talks about Deacons. When we started having deacons, EVBERYBODY got paid, because we ALL shared ALL our money. It was like socialism. It was like living on a commune.
If everydbody pays fully, everybody gets paid. If everybody pays 10% then we are back to the Old Testament system where we can only cover one out of twelve tribes. And if we are not paying the full 10% we might have a problem paying musicians. And the oil bill.
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I don't have a problem with pastor's. I'm apart of a five fold ministry. The problem is you have some leaders who is seeking there own ways not the kindom of God. When this happens there is division in the camp! Pride minsets that are killing the flock! Who is accountable when you're given a hot check? Who is accountable when you're given a word to do something and you don't time after time? Who is accountable when you're prophecied God to me to do something a you dont? A Good name is to be chosen than riches in the book of proverbs and a word fitly spoken as golden apples! Yes the bibles says a just man falls 70 X 70. How long is the church going to live in error or we just want to continue in our wicked ways! Pastors want you to be excellent in all areas but when it's time to talk business you make excuses or cancel business appointments. You have some musicains or ministrels that want to help the church but the church don't want to do there part...my people perish for a lack of knowledge! But in return you said God said to do a cd b4 the end of the year however you just started a new choir and it's only there 2nd rehearsal and they can't sing parts, while you have 15 days left in that year? You want GOD to bless the church with a full band but can't help to take care of one musician but you're holding hot checks? Yes, i believe pastors and musician should serve and love one another. Your WORD goes alot further than money! People tend to work with people who tries to get things right.
Some pastors have these unreachable goals and when the goals is not meet, the church want to use as an excuse we were in a test! No plan = failure! Write the vision make it plain (communicate)!
Communication is vital! You can't be telling one musician one thing and tell another something else. Or change business matters on both parties agreement, then decide to change somethig without communication!
I'm thankful were i'm at not b/c i know GOD has something greater for me. I've have gotten burned in alot of areas but then the church pulls on me like i'm fulltime. The church expects so much with no accountablilty, but then let me miss one service out the year then i'm not committed enough(mindsets)! It's my duty to serve, not get pimped or get the short end of the stick!Words from another apostle/pastor who has spoken into my life years ago.....poeple will use you to get what they want without returning the favor."THIS IS KILLING THE CHURCH" You have servants in the flock who is willing to help but you refuse to listen to God and the people that's God is rasing up to bring deliverance in the house so that that church can be the "BRIDE" endtime church. Look at the news today how all of these Anointed leaders of God that are falling. God is trying to tell his body something?WAKE UP CHURCH!
I'm not trying to bash pastors but everybody is not going to have a mega ministry. I'm not for any crooked musician! When you serve one another blessings flow.
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We must answer this question honestly: "Are we playing at churches that makes us financially comfortable, or are we playing where God told us to?"
If God says go..... then provision for the vision for that church will be there(God knows you have needs). When the people are not on one accord then what? They messing up the body's of christ blessing and yours too, when the pastor wants to give a raise but the people are not giving!
The vision God has given you to help another person's vision through serving and SERVING is not easy. There is a thine line between humbleness and people walking over you to get what they want and kick you to the curb after they have gotten what they want!
All your hard work went down the tubes with that ministry but God knows that your labor is not in vain!
If we all be like Apostle Paul and beat our flesh daily then the church won't have these issues and people would'nt be leaving or church hopping. It's not all the pastors fault, cause you have some money hungry musicians.
Answer this question? If i was going to play for a church for 6 months and i told the pastor that i was going home after six months and he/she agrees ok. Word of advice: Please don't try to persuade me to stay or you had a dream/vision that God told me that you was our minister of music? THIS DOES HAPPENS, If its God's will for that person to say that it shall be! CONFUSION....that's why musicians are leaving!
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I want to say that IT IS ABOUT TIME Mike Ross be on somebody's gospel skillz website. I am a witness from over 10 years ago in the presence of this brother...HE IS A BAD MAMA JAMMA!! THis brother is annointed and glad that he has a few video clips online and PLEASE put more on! As one musician to another...I confirm that prayer life is the key and THIS brother has a prayer life - just listen to him play!! God bless
*if you need the BEST for cheap; check out AmazingSuits.com (for men AND women)
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Can we please try to be real about this, we all know musicians (most) are not going to play for free service and any serious musicians know that it is more that a skills fest and that the anointing needs to flow from your spirit in order to be effective in Ministry in any form, but come on !! Most churches are not about to pay a musician what they are worth just simply because they are not willing to do it! we as musicians are very valueable and should be treated with an amount of respect that goes far beyond just playing on sundays. We sacrifice more time, effort and energy than the majority of members at the church and to lessen the importance of what we do to prepare for weekly worship is an insult! Most of us have two or more jobs just to make ends meet and then we come tired or whatever sick, hurting and all sort of things going on in our own lives, that the church could care less about, simply because they just want to see us on our instrument no matter what is going on, and the new wave of churches are pimping us to no end. They want to dock us and give us meager salaries all while trying to demand they we come to every meeting that they can make up scheduled and imprompt to! but when we come with our hand out for all the extra services and rehearsal no one wants to aknowledge that! and don't even get me started on benefits...where are they??? someone!!! most churches don't take out taxes aor pay social security or give medical benefits or sick days, or in some cases vacations pay and some churches are so tired that they can't even keep the instruments i working order...oh my God!!! so that is just a little insite as to what is really going on with the struggle to keep a good musician....advice here is funny on some of these responses...we deserve to be treated fairly also...not taken advantage of.. I have one more thing to say about loyalty....you give me a church willing to pay fairly and equally for my ability and experience..who is willing to meet me half way and not make up rules as they go then I assure you for me I stay put , but start playing me like a fiddle and I've gotz to shake the spot..lol just being honest I honor and respect God and myself to musch to just be treated any ol kind of way..lol God bless
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I get the feeling that some of the responders don't realize that formany musicians it is a second job.JOB. and should be recognized as such.
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So True!
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The understanding of the place of the music minister in the church is very necessary for everyone vitally involved in music ministry. The issue of money (being paid), is really tied to this. I believe that a gifting and calling from the Lord should not be based on how much the Church board can pay. The most important thing is to be led of the Spirit to a place where the Lord wants! So if a person can be turned from what God has for him/her on the basis of money, it means that such a person lacks understanding of God's word. We are God's children first, and then our skills, or any other thing He decided to bless us with. We can do nothing of ourselves...the talent, the drive to succeed, rehearse and get better is because of His grace on/in us; not our strength. Lets not attempt to dictate terms to God on how we are going to serve Him, because that's what playng an instrument in Church is- service to God. As a music minister search your heart and settle with your boss (God) where He wants you to be.
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I've played keyboards for over 20 years at my church and have never requested to be paid. Attending countless choir and praise team rehearsals has been such a joy to me and the close relationships that were made with my choir and praise team members mean so much more to me than any paycheck. I certainly don't knock the musicians that request to be paid, but that just was not for me. I enjoy serving and have been rewarded by God in so many ways. So now my wife is pastoring and I have taken my servant attitude to serve along with her. I'm looking for God to do great things. He has done so much for us, can't we do just a little somethin'-somethin' for Him? Be blessed
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As a musician of three churchs I feel that church musicians are being over worked. Some churches require us to play at every single service and expect us to give more and more. As a young musician, they don't realize I have to balance other parts of my life along with playing, such as personal devotion, school, relationships and family and finances. I don't believe in getting paid for playing for your home church, but anything extra I do feel that I should be reimbursed for all my effort. I think we put too much emphasis on the music aspect of worship. Could you imagine what church would be like if just for one week everything was acapella? Would still people want to come? Music is good and important but let our hearts hunger for the word, rather than over working our musicians.
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The article is one that should have been
discussed a long time ago. I respect and
honor MSNBC for bringing this issue out in the open. There's absolutely nothing wrong with musicians being paid for their services in the church. Nowadays, you have more skillful musicians playing
in the house of God than ever before. So
often churches have the money to pay a good salary to musicians and won't and
it's because they still don't see the importance of the music ministry in their services. The time and money in taking lessons,including gas to drive to
the lessons or a teacher coming into the
homes of students cost. Not to mention
instuments that cost alot nowadays. If a
musician wants a really good instument,
the cost is more than the common people
would think of spending. A workman is worthy of its hire!!! On the flip side of the coin, there are to many musicians
that charge to much for their services in church. Where's the love for God that
is supposed to shown. Yes, there are some that are jealous of musicians that
play in churches because the job appears
to be so easy. The musician is so skillful it looks appealing but it's not because when you're dealing with people it really can be a task. Many church have been offered more to go in
the secular world because the money is
more lucrutive and less hassel. Yes, your gift will make room for you but the love for the gospel is suppose to be more dominant in a church musician's
life. Most importantly, is musicians attitude!!! A nasty disposition affects
everyone and everything that's around it. That goes from the Pastors to the Board Members, Elders, Deacons, ect. A
show of fond respect helps in more ways than one can imagine. Thanks MSNBC for going into an issue that the world so needed to be aware of. THANKS!!!
Pastor J.D.Roe
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Music is a Biblical requirement.
99% of churches actually want music. I have heard of a few that don't, but that's a discussion for another time...
Some churches want to pay, and some don't. I say do what works for you, but don't blame everybody else for the consequences of your decision.
My question is, what is YOUR church doing to prepare the membership to make music? Do you chase children away from the instruments, or do you sit down and explain things to them? Are the choirs being trained to read music, or is it simply a matter of "Give me my note, so I can go home?"
If our young are encouraged to make music in church, they won't have to look for other places to do it.
If more members actually studied music, discussions regarding finacncial compensation might not begin with, "They really enjoy what they do, why should they get a check on top of that? I wish I could sit there and do that."
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I have been a musician for most of my life, I've been blessed with numerous opportunities to share my gift with the world both gospel and secular. For as long as I can remember being a great musician,songwriter and producer have always been a very important part of my life. Now please understand I grew up with a father who was called to minister and eventually pastor and one of God's most dedicated missionaries in my mother. Was baptized at the age of 9. Alway's believed in Jesus Christ.I could go on and on but to make a long story short. i've got history as a believer but I've come to realize this,only when you reach the point in your walk with Christ where the most important thing to you is to totally submit your will for his perfect will to be done in your life can your ministry become what he created it to be even before the foundation of the world. I now understand that there is no short cut, no way around it and really no excuse that can validate us as believer's being any other way.Only when feeding on the word of God becomes more important than honing your skills to perfect your craft can he truly perfect his will for our lives. We as Christians sometimes do more of satan's work than we want to take credit for. The bible says" my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" Hosea 4:6. I have found that the only knowledge worth having is the knowledge contained in the word of God. The word must be our primary source and we must pray for God's revelation wisdom in order to be all that he created us to be. Too many of us act on emotion and not lead by the spirit of truth.The truth is revealed to us through the word of God. We can't begin to do it until we recognize it to be our source.Striving daily to live according to God's word.So many of us put the emphasis on the wrong things in our lives.Proverbs 18:16 says"A man's gift maketh room for him" and so often because of the great gifts God has blessed us with we become more reliant on the gift than we do the giver of the gift. God had to deal with me on that issue and I'm forever grateful for it.In our church's we have so many talented people preacher's,teacher's,musician's.etc. who God has blessed abundantly in the area of gift's and unfortunately many things get overlooked because of our gift's and we're not held accountable for our walk and who God has called us to be. The body of Christ should represent the ultimate GOD standard of living. We can't keep selling wolf ticket's about our belief's, we must be who we say we are in christ in our daily walk.As believer's we are under the world's scrutiny and our walk represent's the body of christ and should be quite different from the walk of the world. Is it? We all must ask ourselves that question. And re committ ourselves to being what God intended for us to be by studying, believing and walking in our faith. In doing so the question posed"Are good musician's hard to find?" may not even be necessary to ask. Please pray my strength in GOD.
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The real problem of this subject that people are "avoiding" is the ability for that musician to be committed to the body for the whole service and be involved and grow spiritually; the fear that musician will leave and go play for another church or body of Christ or church hop! This is real simple, if the musician does it "full time" a workman is worthy of his hire! If the musician does it part-time then that is between the pastor and church which should be Negotiated right down to terms & definition of contract. "It's not funny" but needs to be dealt with and further more... "Pastors need to be on one accord in the city" so the musician won't church hop and cause others to stumble in the process! This is real talk and said in love!
O.N.E.
LuvLuv
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Well a lot of times our church suffers because we want commited musicians but because they do not get paid the salary comparable to others we get what we pay for...an average musician with average mentality who shows up late, leaves the sanctuary while the Pastor is preaching and returns when he starts "hooping" so that he can accompany the Pastor then. Also, the musician does not practice and literally shows up and fumbles through rehearsals and blames everybody else when he can't find the right key or the tempo and timing is off.
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There is no shortage of musicians there is a shortage of integrity. Not just musicians but churches that have 4 or 5 of the hottest musicians in town on 1 payroll when they know of a sister church that needs a musician. We must get out of the I got mine so you go get your mentality and do things the God way. If you have and abundance and your friends ministry is in lack. Get permission and go even if its to help for a season. This is the behavior that strengthens the Body of Christ.
Also alot of the "worlds" musicians come from church and in some cases still play at church and even their home church.
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I AM DELIGHTED THAT A TOPIC LIKE THIS HAS URGES RESPONSE FROM A BROAD PERSPECTIVE.IT TAKES A MAN WHO DON'T HAVE REGARDS FOR PROFESSION TO SAY MUSICIAN SHOULD NOT BE PAID.2,A MAN WHO HAVE DECIDED NOT TO MAKE HEAVEN WILL NEVER HAVE RESPECT FOR MUSICIAN OR THE MINISTRY.3, FROM A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE WE WERE TOLD THAT THE LEVITES RETURN TO THEIR FIELD BECAUSE WHAT WAS TO BE THEIR PAY HAS BEEN HELD BY THE CHURCH AUTHORITIES NEHEMIAH 10;13.WHILE IT REMAINS A FACT THAT THE WORD HAS BUILD UP MANY PEOPLE MUSIC IN THE MINISTRY TODAY STANDS AN INFLUENTIAL AND MOST LOVED ACTIVITIES IN CHURCHES.THE CHURCH IS LOOSING TALENTED PEOPLE TO THE WORLD AND WHEN THEY STAND TALL WE START TO CONDEMN THEM THAT THEY ARE NOT USING THEIR TALENT FOR THE LORD, WHILE THEY WERE OURS WE DO NOTHING TO HELP THEM.WE WANT R KELLY AND OTHERS TO COME BACK TO CHURCH AND SING FOR GOD,BUT HOW COMES THE CHURCH ALLOWED SUCH A TALENT TO SLIP OFF.WHEN THE CHURCH IS SO SMALL AND CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY WE WILL UNDERSTAND BUT IF YOU CAN AND YOU DONT WANT TO PAY THEN YOU HAVE NO REASON TO RETAIN THE MAN WHO WANT TO MAKE LIFE LIKE YOU.
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How can we be fulfilled as musicians? No one ever suggested any ideas however, made good statements on rather a musician be paid or so! What is that musician(s) goal “short” and “long” term? This should be discussed 1 on 1 with pastor; yes the church has goals too! This should give the pastor an idea how to plan and grow there ministry. True: In ministry people use and abuse one another to get what they want…..the pastor quit or the musician left! If I want to be a church musician all my life then cool! If I want to travel and minister in music cool! THE CHOICE IS YOURS! We put so many rules and requirements that’s it hurting our own. Submitting and being accountable to each other is the key to all of this. You don’t see those two words in application in today’s church! GOD is the top man (spirit)! What’s really hurting us is that everybody wants to give a prophetic word on that musician life to do cds and traveling but ready to give a hot check or you play for people with a “TITLE” for years, time go by and you still fell incomplete! The church is struggling just to pay the light bills. How can we help our own? “CRABS IN A BUCKET”! Come on my people. We want to be top dog in the 4walls but outside the walls we broke, busted and don’t “own” anything like land, banks, and hotels and etc however we can confess and say were walking in the kingdom. Just like the fig tree in the bible! It thinks it producing fruit but dead! What is the answer to keep our musicians in the church and allow them to be fulfilled? My people are perishing! Stop spreading this false image of riches and start serving one anther in your own community. When God see us being on 1 accord maybe he will bless his house with more finances to run his kingdom. We are all different. Everybody won’t make it BIG in this life. Everybody won’t be on TBN or make a CD/DVD. It’s a good thing if God blesses you to reach that level in life to do so. We are losing souls and the fear of the Lord cause were so concerned about who’s the most anointed but don’t have $40 dollars to fill the car up? Fulfillment begins with that person and the purpose God has for your life. IF you want to play for free that’s cool to! Would you pay R. Smallwood $150.00 a Sunday? Or would you pay him more just because his name. I may not play like him but a little appreciation from time to time helps to get to that level! Your WORD goes further than the dollar! THE TRUTH WILL MAKE YOU FREE…..WALK IN IT!!!!
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